FakawiTribe.com | TribalTalk

crumbs · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: Disc brake vs V-brake

hi newbie here. Am planning to get a bike when i came across a bike that i quite like. But the problem is this mountain bike frame does not support disc brake for the rear tyre. Am wondering is it ok to get a frame that cant support dics brake. Would also like to know the difference in terms of performance between this two type of brakes

patawi · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject:

The need for disk brakes depends on several factors. How heavy are you? How heavy is the bike? Do you love long downhills? Do you care about every ounce of weight? Is it important for you to be able to fix any problem you encounter on the trail? Do you ride often in wet and muddy conditions?

V-Brakes are light, cheap, simple, dead easy to set up and dead easy to maintain, even deep in the woods. For a rider up to 75kg on a light cross country bike I still think they can't be beat. But if you have a lot of weight to stop, if you are on the brakes for long periods of time, and if you ride often in wet and muddy conditions you might be better off with disks because those are all things that disks do better than v-brakes.

That said, most of your stopping power comes from the front brake anyway and the sooner you learn that the better, so whether or not you have a disk on the back is not such a big deal. I have a mechanical disk on the front and v-brakes on the rear of my bike and am quite happy with the setup. My frame doesn't have a rear caliper mount and my forks don't have v-brake mounts so I am stuck with a foot in both worlds but it seems to be a good mix.

crumbs · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject:

thanks, that just made my day.

si1ver · Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 438

I agree with Pat above when come to V brake vs disc brake questions. If you weight reasonable, prefer ease of set up and maintainance plus refuse excessive weight on your bike, V brake is the way to go .

If you are a Clydesdale , Do alot of downhill and could not care less about weight Disc will be a good choice .
As for the braking power , front brake is your friend not foe therefore as soon as you learn how to use the front brake well both V and disc work fine .
I been using V brake exclusively for as long as I can remember and have no reason to move to disc yet Unless if I am building a super light carbon frame with no v brake option fork.:-)
One thing about a V brake though you might find that there is need to replace the rim more often than disc rim due to side wall thinning .

norizzuddin · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:21 am Post subject:

pat,

I am breaking the barrier you set (more than 75kg) and after a while, i felt that my front V's giving me less grip (even in hot & dry condition) as compared to the first time I bought the bike in August. FYI, the V-brake comes standard with the bike and the brake pad still has more than 60% thread. I tried toe-in and brush the dirt residue between the groove, no luck.

In you opinion, issit bcoz the pad quality and can be improved by using kool stop pad or it's time to move to disc brake?

Anyone here tried dipping the pad into "kacip fatima" and gets a better grip? :-D

si1ver · Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 438

if you are using shimano pads ditch them and go with Kool Stop all weather pads they last much longer and grip far more better than shimano or any other pads .

lordie · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject:

disc brake is definatetly the way to go. compare the 2 sticks and a wire. and regarding weight some disc brakes are lighter than Vees, and if u start adding brake boosters, etc..etc..

and modulations, disc brakes got more modulations and literally maintainance free. its a fix and forget. i have no issues with my disc brake whatsoever, and i have a few over the years and modulations is just peechy. amazing control.

patawi · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject:

[quote="norizzuddin"]pat, In your opinion, is it bcoz the pad quality and can be improved by using kool stop pad or it's time to move to disc brake?

Anyone here tried dipping the pad into "kacip fatima" and gets a better grip? :-D[/quote]

Agree with Silver, it's worth trying Kool Stop. I switched away from Shimano pads a long time ago, they wore out quickly and yet didn't seem to give such good stopping power - a very odd combination. If you still aren't happy after trying new pads, consider changing over to discs.

And no, I haven't tried kacip fatima. I think it's up to you to try it out and report back to us. :-)

xtcgodzilla · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject:

err kacip fatima for more grip ?

then ppl should try tongkat ali for more travel

si1ver · Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 438

[quote="lordie"]disc brake is definatetly the way to go. compare the 2 sticks and a wire. and regarding weight some disc brakes are lighter than Vees, and if u start adding brake boosters, etc..etc..
.[/quote]
I would be interested to know which disc brake is lighter than V brake at under any condition cos so far I believe that they have yet to make one :-)

joeadnan · DirtGuru Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 361

[quote="lordie"]and modulations, disc brakes got more modulations and literally maintainance free. its a fix and forget.[/quote]

My preference for rims brakes is precisely because discs have [i]less[/i] modulation (at least the majority of disc brakes, save for some of the higher end models like Juicy 7). What disc brakes are you using?

Maintenance free? Cable actuated discs, maybe, but even then nothing is ever maintenance free. And when it comes to the time to actually do the maintenance, I find difficult to imagine that maintenance on discs could ever be simpler than, say, XTR V brakes.

yish... · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:00 am Post subject:

Disc brakes are definitely far from being "maintenance free" - no matter what model. Me having gone through my fair share of disc brakes have come to the conclusion that cable actuated disc brakes - Avid's BB7 in this case - would be my preferred choice. Justification:

1. Cables make things simpler - no messy hydraulic fluids that may be contaminated with air bubbles and moisture that could lead to significant drop in performance.

2. Adjustment is a breeze - most levers (even lower range ones) comes with the reach adjust feature. As for bite (engagement/modulation/feel) adjust, the inner and outer red dials on the caliper does the trick plain and simple.

3. Zero paranoia when wheels are removed for transportation. With cable actuated disc brakes, you won't have to worry about messing up the caliper brake pad spacing by accidentally squeezing the lever when the rotor is not in place. There are rubber pieces that come with hydraulic brake sets for you to stuff between the pads in absence of the rotor but that was never enough to give me a peace of mind.

4. End-user serviceable. I find it easier to tweak around and understand the mechanics of cable actuated disc brakes compared to hydraulic disc brakes. There are just one too many issues with hydraulic brakes - the bleeding process in itself can get quite messy to the untrained biker. Whereas it would be quite hard to mess up stringing a cable through for your mechanical disc brakes.

Added Bonus - Choice of levers. You could still change levers on your hydraulic brakes but it is only the lever blade that's inter changeable with 3rd party accessories. You're still quite stuck with the master cylinder set up.

However, Cable actuated disc brakes do not match the stopping power provided by most hydraulic disc brakes. My solution - up the rotor size. Down side - weight penalty. With you weighing in at around 75kgs, I think the 6" rotors should do the trick for cross country style riding. Should you find that insufficient, up your front rotor to a 7".

It's all down to your personal choice. I made mine through experiences with different brake sets (V-brakes included) and rotor sizes.

poh · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:52 am Post subject:

Since the discussion has touched upon cable-actuated vs hydralic disc brakes, let me chip in with an article from Mountainbike Action from Aug 07. which discussed various myths....

[b]'Cable-actuated disc brakes are more reliabe than hydraulic' ----- FALSE[/b]

Fear of change is the only motivator for the use of cable-actuated mechanical disc brakes. For starters, hydraulic systems are completely sealed, while mechanical brakes are open to dirt and grime at every housing stop and inside the calipers. Hydraulic calipers and levers are self-adjusting, so once the system is up and running, they will stop consistently and trouble free until the pads wear out. Mechanical calipers must be routinely adjusted to keep the pads within striking distance of the rotors. Weight is also an issue - the caliper's ball bearing jackscrew is far heavier than a pair of rubber seals and an aluminium piston, and an oil-filled plastic hose is much lighter than a steel reinforced housing with a stainless steel cable sliding inside of it. Take away price and pretense and there is no excuse not to step up to superior-stopping hydraulic disc brakes.

lordie · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject:

[quote="si1ver"][quote="lordie"]disc brake is definatetly the way to go. compare the 2 sticks and a wire. and regarding weight some disc brakes are lighter than Vees, and if u start adding brake boosters, etc..etc..
.[/quote]
I would be interested to know which disc brake are lighter than at under any condition cos so far I believe that they have yet to make one :-)[/quote]

they already made for than a few

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/

its been a while now, like the Marta SL, Formula B4 Pro. some carbon bits, Ti's, floating rotors, etc...etc.. and they are some OEM taiwan mgf that already make disc brake systems lighter than some Vees in the market.

lordie · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject:

[quote="joeadnan"][quote="lordie"]and modulations, disc brakes got more modulations and literally maintainance free. its a fix and forget.[/quote]

My preference for rims brakes is precisely because discs have [i]less[/i] modulation (at least the majority of disc brakes, save for some of the higher end models like Juicy 7). What disc brakes are you using?

Maintenance free? Cable actuated discs, maybe, but even then nothing is ever maintenance free. And when it comes to the time to actually do the maintenance, I find difficult to imagine that maintenance on discs could ever be simpler than, say, XTR V brakes.[/quote]

maybe u use the cheapo disc brakes ;p. ikekeke

am using a few thru out the years maintaince free. once bleeded, set-up proper they work extremely well with awesome modulation that rim brakes can never achieve. i service the brakes like once a year and its fit and forgot for the rest of the season.

i am using Hope Mono M4 currently with goodrigdge cables. used to use ole school XT 4-pots, 2006 XT's, Saints, Hope Mono's, etc..etc.. on multiple bikes and non ever give me any issues. total confident with them. but all fitted with goodridge cables and EBC pads.

some resources to englightened u on disc brakes are having better modulations than rim brakes.

"Disc brakes offer better modulation of braking power and generally require less finger effort to achieve the same braking power...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_brake_systems

seriously. DISC BRAKES > RIM Brakes when it comes to modulations.

i rave abt disc brakes for a few reasons. it works great on wet conditions or muddy conditions and our muds here can be quite insane that it can clog up your rim brakes and those small stones, grains can scrap that nice rims of yours. and what happened when u taco'ed your rims? dun tell me u wanna carry your bike 10 miles to the nearest exit or ride without brakes? well u can taco'ed the rims and still pedal out, assuming its taco bad but not that bad, and disc brakes are still working irregardless how u taco'ed your rims. as for stopping power/ doh rim brakes never EVER stop me or even attempt to modulate or control speed for me EVER untill i discover disc brakes. Power and control at the tips of your 2 fingers is just peachy, and nowadays with disc brakes weighing lesser and matching Vees. no reason not to make the switch.